Recently there have been numerous heated discussions/debates/arguments/flamefests on the subject of adult-owned islands on the teen grid, such as Global Kids, PacRimX, Schome Park, the Eye4You Alliance, and the Suffern Middle School. The general opinion on this appears to be split into three main groups, with a significant majority in the first; the “Adults are evil, ban them all!” group, the “I like them here because…” group, and the majority of the grid that thinks “I don’t care at all.”
There have also been a few in-between stances, and the occasional idea to help sort this out. Firstly, the arguments for getting rid of all educational sims are something like this:
- Teens aren’t allowed on the Main Grid, so why should adults be allowed on the teen grid?
- I don’t play SL to learn
- They’re invading
- They ignore the rules set when they are allowed to enter the grid.
Arguments against:
- My life is enriched by the people on these islands
- They don’t affect you at all.
That fairly accurately covers what people have been saying. My thoughts are that these sims are definitely not having any negative impact at all - they can’t access our mainland, for that matter they can’t even leave their sims to visit other sims owned by approved adults (a rule I feel is pushing the limits of what is needed in the name of “safety”). Since all adults have to have background checks, there is no chance of a known pedophile, etc. getting onto one of these sims. In essence, if you don’t like them, don’t visit them.
However, islands do have a positive impact (sometimes). Global Kids has raised, or at least tried to raise, awareness about problems such as the treatment of the population of Darfur, run a successful summer camp, joined with UNICEF to run the World Fit for Children building contest (which I sort of helped out with, a little), and run numerous programmes in SL with their students (wrong word?) in real life. Less usefully, they seem to now be getting into gaming as well. I can’t see this turning out as anything other than a laggy mess that achieves little. You may have noticed that I have only focused on the Global Kids islands there. That’s because, in all honesty, all the other educational sims don’t seem to actually do anything. I have been told that the Eye4You Alliance is gearing up to do something (eventually), but right now it’s a mess. Schome Park is a mess, and last I checked a mess that broke LL’s stringent rules (specifically, it was open access without notecard spammers) (Update 22/03/07: the sim is now abiding by the rules, and snapshots indicate it has been cleaned up).
The private sims I can’t say anything for, although their blogs do imply they’re doing something. I have no way at all of gauging their success though, so no comment there. As a summary, I say that educational islands and approved adults should be allowed on their own sims. I also feel they should be allowed on eachother’s sims, which as far as I can tell they currently aren’t. The reasoning behind this is not evident to me. I do feel that they should be more transparent as to what they do, but requiring them to submit a form that has to be approved by the entire Teen Grid is just stupid - nobody cares enough to approve anything, and those that do care are usually against the islands.
As a sidenote, blogs suck at two-way communication, since you have to actually check back to see if your question/comment was responded too - not a problem for me, but it is for everyone else. (Or you could subscribe to the comments RSS feed, or use the email notification) 
I start to wonder if we were better not seeing the private sims and not questioning their existance when we look at our maps. >_>
Not being able to see private islands did tend to let owners hide from justification for existance - most of the time, until libSL removed that cloak of invisibility not so long ago.
I had a point for this comment and I forgot it.
Yeah, i agree with this. All the crud about the “adults invading the grid” and “ruining our economy” is bull. I don’t think any sensible adult would want to sign up for an account on the Teen Grid, mostly because they risk banishment from all areas of SL forever, and because the teen grid doesnt have the cool things that MG has. Adult education accounts such as Barry GKid are confined to the 3 GK sims. It’s good that LL isn’t worrying about this, because they should be more worried about Kids on the main grid.
-Chilko
I agree, even if I’m still a newbie, after all.
As an adult on the teen grid, I’m quite happy to that the teens of TSL are taking critical perspectives about this issue (though obviously I’m in favor of us staying!). I think that there’s a lot to be said for teens deciding and arguing for what they do and don’t want in their spaces, and can empathize with both sides.
If you’re a teen that feels passionate about this issue one way or another (even if that passion translates as “I really don’t care!), get in touch with one of the Gkid adults. We’re going to be holding an in-world debate soon, so think out your arguments now!
Katharine, thanks for bringing up this issue.
This is indeed a pretty contreversial issue. I am for adults coming to our grid, if they continue to play a positive role. GK has been a real help with getting awareness around about global issues, and I have learned a great deal from. Although I do not find their activities they hold necessarily always engaging, the information learned is a great help.
Other islands, such as Eye4You Alliance, I am skeptical of their continuing existence. their affiliation with libraries may hurt them in the short run, but overall, it should turn out cool. They have yet to engage the TSL community as GK has for the most part, and they are rather unheard of. I actually wrote a Metaverse Messenger article about Eye4You a few months back, before it was discontinued for teens.
I am waiting to see how those other islands will turn out, but I do feel that the Suffern Middle school islands is really a pioneering move, and I definately wish my middle school did something similar.
-Jackson Widget
I think people would be a lot happier if we could see what sims we could TP into and what sims we can’t on the map, and if these PIs had descriptions attached to them. A lot of this backlash is probably because of a bunch of seemingly useless sims that reject TPs unexpectedly and are thought to be responsible for rising island prices.
If you think that a small number of educational sims, which are still using the old prices anyway, is driving up prices, then you’re mad. If you expect any arbitrary private sim to let you in, you need to adjust your expectations. It only takes several seconds to find out.
If you care about rejected TPs, make a client to fix it. But remember that some sims have incorrect access settings, and will let you in when it’s a breach of contract for them to do so. Then they’ll love you. >.>
The comment about Schome Park is unfortunate - and somewhat misleading.
It is true that for a short while after the island was mirrored from the Main Grid to the Teen Grid it was mistakenly open - this was beyond our control in as much as LL did the mirroring and we did not have estate controls initially so could not adjust the access setttings. This did result in the island being somewhat overrun by unexpected visitors.
We closed the island as rapidly as possible - and sorted out ‘the mess’ that the unexpected visitors had created. This all happened prior to our own staff or students arriving on Schome Park.
Find out for yourself what you think about the island - clearly you cannot visit but you can get a feel for what we are up to from the schome community website (http://www.schome.ac.uk/) and the Schome Park bliki in particualr (http://schome.open.ac.uk/wikiworks/index.php/The_Schome_Park_bliki)
PeterT
We look forward to working with adults and teens on Eye4You Alliance. We’ve had a few events on the island and have learned a lot about auto return
I am sorry to hear that it is considered a mess. We welcome suggestions and ways to improve it. Hopefully our affiliation with a public library will not hurt us being there in the short run. We do not intend to have events and themes that teens aren’t interested in-we have enough of that stigma in rl with libraries and realize that.
I was unaware that being affilated with a library was a stigma - I wouldn’t have considered it one anyway.
And how do you all find this post anyway? Did someone post a link here somewhere? <.<
Hi Katharine,
Thanks for posting. I’m an adult (a teacher) that has never been on the TG but hopes to be soon, as part of an existing build (volunteering). Basically I’m trying to learn about the TG so I can help show other teachers use SL with their students.
It’s really important to me to understand how teens use and like SL because many of us teachers think it has amazing potential as a classroom tool.
What you think matters more.
By the way, since you’re running Wordpress (excellent choice, it’s what I blog with) you should check out this plugin:
http://txfx.net/code/wordpress/subscribe-to-comments/
It allows your visitors to get an email when a comment is submitted. Very handy. If you aren’t familiar with how to install Wordpress plugins, ask around, and if you don’t get anywhere, let me know. I’ll help you out. (I’ve also got a few more cool Wordpress plugins to share if you’re interested.)
What I want to know is … how does your experience in SL make you feel about school? Are you finding that what you do in SL is changing the way you get along with people in RL? Would you recommend to your friends that they try an SL project if they had the chance at their school?
And finally, most importantly, what one thing, if anything, would you change to make a TG SL classroom experience fun and worthwhile?
Thanks again,
Kevin Jarrett
Northfield, NJ USA
Hello, Kevin.
Firstly, you get my standard moan about you mispelling my name. It has two As and only one E.
I usually just use the comment RSS feed. But I’ve installed the plugin.
My experience in SL makes me wish SL worked at my school. I wouldn’t recommend that my friends try an SL project if they had the chance, simply because I don’t really want that sort of person wandering around SL. I don’t find it changing the way I get along with people in RL much at all - I ignored them as much as possible before and continue to do so now.
To make a TG SL classroom experience worthwhile… I don’t know. The single ‘class’ that I have gone to could have done with giving more credit to our common sense.. or accepting that most of us have none, and not bothering to try and teach common sense first. Other than that, I haven’t a clue.
Katharine,
I’m so sorry for misspelling your name, just because you’re used to it happening doesn’t excuse the error. To be honest, I was typing quickly as I ran out the door for a meeting. Please edit the comment and fix the spelling. I would if I could.
If you could clarify … and please bear with me for being a little slow on the uptake.
>>>
My experience in SL makes me wish SL worked at my school.
>>
I wouldn’t recommend that my friends try an SL project if they had the chance, simply because I don’t really want that sort of person wandering around SL.
>>
I don’t find it changing the way I get along with people in RL much at all - I ignored them as much as possible before and continue to do so now.
>>
To make a TG SL classroom experience worthwhile… I don’t know. The single ‘class’ that I have gone to could have done with giving more credit to our common sense.. or accepting that most of us have none, and not bothering to try and teach common sense first. Other than that, I haven’t a clue.
Comment edited.
Meaning I’m addicted to SL and annoyed that it doesn’t work at my school… although they have mentioned interest in it, so it might - eventually.
The people at my school completely miss the point. They (well, at least the guys) would proceed to blow everything up, then participate in various non-PG activities. So I might recommend them if I ignored who they were, if I felt it was interesting. But I think, selfishly, that I just want them to keep away from SL.
I don’t interact much in real life - both due to an inability to talk (not going into that here), and for the reasons I wouldn’t want people in my school in SL - see above. I do talk to people in SL though.
Ignore the final comment and substitute it for “No idea.”
Also, I still want to know why everyone seems to be aware of the existence of this post. >.>
Hi again Katharine,
Thanks for your insights … more, please.
>>>
Meaning I’m addicted to SL and annoyed that it doesn’t work at my school… although they have mentioned interest in it, so it might - eventually.
>>
The people at my school completely miss the point. They (well, at least the guys) would proceed to blow everything up, then participate in various non-PG activities.
>>
I don’t interact much in real life … I do talk to people in SL though.
Oh forgot to add sorry … Barry from GlobalKids told me about your blog.
I want to play SL at school! >.>
People in IT have mentioned wanting to get the school a region (they definately have the money), but haven’t a clue what they would do with it. So… eh.
The people at my school are not nice people, nor to they have any respect for rules. I’ll leave it at that.
I don’t mix well with the pupils at my school. There are a bunch of nice people in SL though. And another bunch who hate me.
I suspect many people “hate” you because they envy you. Your definitely one of the top 5 scripters on the grid, and you own an island, which is envy criteria last time i checked. Many of the people at my school would miss the point too, im trying t oget people to play and not be noobs, which is quite hard. I certanly envy your scripting ability, but your a nice person.
Gads, sorry for the spelling above.
I like the way you are thinking but I don’t think seperate grids works and I do believe the grids should combine, only reason being that it would help alot. I don’t want to make people leave and go to this game but I play The Sims Online as well and they don’t have seperate places and they have I believe 10 - 13+ year olds in there. Yes the younger ones can get rather annoying but this game only permits teens so you won’t have to worry about it. So, on with my idea, lets say we combine the two and we ask for parental permissions to go to mature regions and we have parental controls. That would make it so that teens can interact with the adults and like you said, the majority think that they are not bothing them in the least and combining the grids together would keep that same effect. What would you say to that?
Try looking at this post about the grids.
I would ask that any teen on the Teen Grid that feels that the private islands run by adults should be banned should go and look at what the islands are for before passing judgement on them.
The private islands on the Teen Grid contribute to the revenue stream that supports the operation of the Teen Grid (that’s not a bad thing). The islands have to have a teen-centric purpose to be there at all. And as was already stated, our islands are basically islands unto themselves. The adults there cannot leave the islands (nor can the teens), and nobody can come to the islands. Our users log directly into and out of the private islands. And all adults are put through a background check. The one in Japan can take upwards of a month to get through.
The PacRimX Islands provide a place for foriegn exchange students from Japan and California to spend a year together, building friendships, sharing in their cultures, and collaborating on building out the islands. After the year they travel to the other’s country and meet all of their new friends in real life. Their time on the island replaces the first few awkward days that now exist when students from two very different countries are suddenly standing face to face, having never met before.
These islands are all about teens. The adults fund the project, and are there to gently nudge the activities on the island in the direction of the stated goals.
No virtual world is perfect. I don’t particularily enjoy having to traverse the red light districts on the Main Grid, I also don’t like having to navigate around the various commercial islands that are private on the Main Grid. Second Life is a reflection of real life, and not a Utopia (yet). Until the grids are distributed/licensed, and you can teleport between them, we will have to put up with the hodgepodge patchwork of areas and residents that have varying interests on both grids.
If you want to read about the PacRimX project you can check our blog at http://pacificrimx.wordpress.com
Hi Katharine,
This was extremely useful to learn about how you, as a teen and SL resident, feel about the different sims out there owned by adults. One day, and hopefully soon, myself and others at Global Kids will be allowed to visit other adults-owned sims, but for now I am pretty happy staying on GK Island and meeting teens from all over the world.
It is no “piece of cake” as I’ve learned throughout the last 6 months where we’ve hosted events, contests, panels, live audo/video streams, etc, on Global Kids Island, so from my perspective, we can come up with ideas, and a strucuture, but ultimately nothing can be accomplished without teens participation and teens support.
As my 16 year old sister says about adults on the teen space, there are people on it for gaming reasons, and that’s it, and those who just have nothing better to do, so why not get something educational out of it. If you don’t like them, don’t go, and if you do, go, got nothing to lose.
Hi again Katharine (Not ‘Catharine’),
Congrats - your posting and input have made a difference:
http://tinyurl.com/2wnbuz
The teen grid is being redesigned thanks to your input (and others as well).
Thanks for starting (and staying in) this conversation.
-kj-
I know they’re doing so. I was sent the email too.
And I don’t have a C in my name either. That’s my sister’s name.
*Blinks at the amount of comments.*
I think it’s time I consider the whole RSS Feed thingy.
Eh, sorry for going off topic.
Sometimes humanity disappoints me.
Especially when they act out of commercial interests.
I think that the adults on the teen grid are a good thing. Katharine has a good point with them being able to go to each others islands though. Alot of them should be able to at least view other sim’s like theirs. Maybe it will help with the tidying up of their own sims. Maybe it wont. Who knows, but seriously adults doing educational projects is what needs to be done, alot of the islands are abused and need some teaching for the new players to help make the game a friendlier place. Cause right now the whole Teen gird is full of noobs who wish to just shootup everyone. I actually had someone try to mug me! How does that work? ‘Give me all your money!’ ‘NO!’ What are they going to do? Shoot me? So then im returned to my home. Congrats i still didnt give you money.
Everyone at my school misses the point of Second Life, But i guess thats how it works. Few people get the idea.